You are taking things too personally. Do as you wish, but no one here is attempting to “Run you Off”, so to speak. I realize you said you were not responding again and that is up to you. Either way, inputs are appreciated and respected to the degree that they are. With all due respect, trained and licensed UAV pilot has no bearing whatsoever on data analysis. We are all here to help. Sorry that you feel the way that you do.
How dare you attack me once again… I am trained and hold a pilots license. You just couldn’t resist replying when I made it quite clear I want no more replies. Now I am deleting myself from the whole forum. I was directing my help towards Cjd86 and he has taken on what I said as only trying to help him. I suggest every pilot to use a logbook like the one I mentioned and there are others as it logs in very fine detail the whole flight. Every pilot uses a logbook as it’s the law if you want to get a proper license! If anything happens to your drone your insurance will ask to see the logs as will DJI. It is VIP. If you’re going to fly then do it right. Goodbye again!
What is wrong with you? You have never been attacked. If you feel that your integrity has been insulted then I sincerely apologize for that not only for myself but for others as well. It was never an intent. We all know the regulations, both for hobbyist and for 107. There is no need, to accentuate the fact in order to make a point. I truly do not understand at all why you are in such a tizzy, so to say. There is no point to that. It is completely understood that you were directing your “assistance” to the OP. And I think that we can all agree and appreciate that point. You continue to mention log books, licensing etc…and that is all well and good and following regs for commercial which is also well and good. Those of us who “choose” not to fly commercially have every right and means to do so and as well follow the regs for flight in the “hobbyist” realm. Although, personally, I could easily obtain a commercial license, I have no need nor practical use for that. That does not mean that I do not know the regs for both. Do you see where I am going with this? It does not matter which you choose, but do so in a manner that is respectful for both areas. This entire back and forth is completely useless to the OP’s issue and there is no point in continuing the conversation in the manner you chose to do so. I wish you well, and hope that you will remain on board with the entire crew here in the forums.
Well that was weird.
100% Agreed…
Just, “Wow!”…
Hi all,
DJI have responded this morning to advise they have finished the data analysis, and the result is as follows:
- The aircraft worked under GPS mode and responded to the pilot’s command well;
- T=00:21, H=71.9 m, D=76.1 m, the aircraft flew forward at 7.8 m/s and ascended at 1.1 m/s after the pilot pushed the Pitch forward and pushed the Throttle upward, then the app record ended;
- Home Point: 37.1207131 -8.4927899 and the last recorded point: 37.1200422 -8.4929696.
The record ended without any sign of abnormality, so we could not verify what happened afterwards.
We truly appreciate your support for DJI. If the aircraft couldn’t be retrieved, we would like to offer you a 30% off coupon code for Mavic 2 Zoom (without the remote controller and battery charger).
While I appreciate DJI are unable to confirm what happened due to the data available, it appears there was no pilot error which resulted in the incident. This would appear to only suggest a hardware or software issue at fault.
Considering what we do know - The aircraft was close to the homepoint, relatively low altitude in good flying conditions and we’ll within its performance parameters surely common sense indicates that the aircraft should not have behaved in this way and it is a product failure. DJI themselves have stated that the aircraft performed normally before the records ended.
Why would the aircraft suddenly disconnect when the signal was 100% throughout flight? It can only point to a failure.
Also it’s strange that a company would react to offer a discount of 30% if there was a chance it was no fault of their own. My opinion is that DJI know from the data we have that the aircraft should not have operated in this way and disconected, granted we don’t have further data but this incident points more to a product failure than anything else.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, there have been other cases reported like this where M2’s have fallen from the sky without pilot error being a factor. Surely DJI must be aware of this and the safety hazard this presents.
Seems like a bit of a cop out from DJI here.
What do you guys think?
Like DJI mentioned, the data does not shows signs of anything abnormal. From the data alone, there is no way to tell if this incident was caused by pilot error or hardware failure.
If you don’t want to take the 30% discount, then you should try to locate the aircraft. With that in hand, you could get it fixed/replaced under warranty if the onboard flight log shows no signs of pilot error.
I appreciate what you have to say @msinger however it has not been possible to locate and recover the aircraft due to safety reasons. DJI should take this into consideration (the safety of their customers).
Also what would be the case if the aircraft was recovered and the data was not retrievable or damaged? Would they uphold the warranty then… I assume not from their response. Pretty much the warranty is useless unless they see fit.
I have replied to DJI with the following;
This response is not good enough. As a customer a user and pilot I need closure to understand what happened.
Are the Mavic 2 safe to fly and can I justify another DJI product? If you are unable to categorically explain or suggest why the aircraft behaved in this way then what confidence do I have in your product.
From your analysis it shows there was no pilot error and by default DJI are admitting fault with the product. No ownership is being taken here by DJI and as such DJI are avoiding responsibility.
For the data to not allow pilot error then it can only be a system software or hardware failure.
I appreciate that the data ends however there is no way that I, the pilot could have caused this incident as clear from the data available.
Considering what we do know. The aircraft was close to the homepoint, low altitude, in good weather flying conditions, satellite locked on, battery at 99%, within visual line of sight and we’ll within its performance limits. The aircraft had also been inspected and flight checked before commencing its flight path.
Common sense would indicate that the aircraft should not have behaved in this way, there was no interference with the aircraft whilst in flight and this can only suggest a product failure (software or hardware related). A sudden disconnection here at this range is certainly a failure with the product.
From my research it is clear that this is not an isolated incident. There have been many other cases of this product (Mavic 2) of which I can provided sources. These cases all present the aircraft disconnecting and falling from the sky, with no pilot error to blame.
This raises a serious safety concern I believe you are already aware of.
Your response is concerning as it does not explain what happened and I can’t have 100% faith in your product any more. What happens if this issue happens again? Am I to pay again for another product due to no fault of my own? It puts serious doubt in my confidence to fly it the way I used to.
If you had explained this incident as a one off product failure I would feel better and have more faith but without explanation I’m left with no closure and worries about its abilities and the hazard this presents to users and others.
I am certain the UK CAA would be interested to hear that you are unable to conclude what has happened here with your product (clearly based on other accounts that this is not a one off incident). This poses a serious safety risk to all and without addressing the issue the product should be considered to be taken off sale.
For your initial offer of 30% off this suggest you are aware your product is at fault. You need to stand behind your product and I recommend that you reconsider and offer a free replacement rather than a discount.
Furthermore the product is still within its warranty period and it has not performed as expected causing the loss of product.
This is very curious to me. The time stated is at the very end of the data. Why no mention of the full down throttle at 20.4 seconds?
If you believe that to be true, then it was certainly a pilot error to fly your Mavic into a location where you knew it could not be safely retrieved if it did not perform as expected (like in this case). If you’re going to take risky flights like this in the future, you might want to consider attaching a tracker to the aircraft.
The analysis only shows everything was working as expected for the duration of the flight log. It doesn’t prove this incident was not caused by pilot error.
I’m not sure what they would do. However, I suspect they’d offer to share the blame by splitting the cost of the replacement. That seems like a reasonable thing to do in a case where the cause cannot be determined.
I noticed that too which I thought was quite strange. They don’t appear to be able to analyse a 20 second flight in full what hope do we have?
Makes me suspect the analysis is completed by an employee with little understanding outside the boundaries of their training book or the basic training they have received. Something similar to a basic call centre member of staff springs to mind.
The only inputs I could have entered as the pilot would be those recorded by the controller on the data we have. Odbviously after the data ends I would not have been in control. It does not appear that I could have caused the end of this flight based on what we know.
It is not as if i have a 200ft + pair of stilts to knock it down / interfere with it.
Their initial data analysis is often a bit cursory but, at any level of analysis, they would have come to the same conclusion. In the absence of a recovered aircraft they only offer a replacement if the flight log clearly shows problems. When the log just ends in normal flight their default position is a 30% discount.
It’s unfortunate that the aircraft can’t be recovered - what do you mean when you say that it cannot be located due to safety reasons?
Anyway - whether you agree with the policy or not - that is how DJI deals with these cases. And it is perfectly possible that pilot error could have caused this - not properly inserting the battery has led to similar events on numerous occasions. Consumer law doesn’t require DJI to replace a product that was lost for indeterminate reasons, and this is just an inevitable risk of flying UAVs.
1 Like
DJI have today provided the below response. The response seems like a bit of a cop out to be honest.
They rule out pilot error and seem to lay blame with interference disconnecting the remote. Doesn’t this then contradict the fail safe of RTH function which should have kicked in? This function should come into play if the controller has turned off or the signal has been interrupted.
If remote signal interference did occur which I highly doubt (the tallest trees were over 200ft below, buildings even further away and I remained in VLOS for the controller to maintain connection (100% throughout data)) then any interference would not also stop the RTH function from operating and allow the aircraft to return to its home location. This appears that the safety feature has failed and resulted in the drone dropping out the sky. This can only point to a system failure as this failsafe software has not performed as designed if at all.
They can’t have it both ways and say it’s not pilot error and it’s not the drones error. The blame has to lay somewhere which as DJI advise themselves, subtracting pilot error from the equation only leaves a system hardware or software at fault. The drone did not RTH as it should in the event of a disconection.
There is no hypothetical required, this has to be a failure of the product.
It’s a bit silly of them to say “The aircraft showed no signs of a manufacturing defect or malfunction during the whole flight”. Of course this would be the case as it only malfunctioned at point of the data ending.
Response below;
Thanks for getting back to us.
We are sorry for the frustrating experience you have had with our product. We also want to figure out the cause of the incident, however, it was not recorded. As you can see the flight record ended at flight time 00’21’', there was no more flight record after that. And we want to remind you that the remote connection of the aircraft can be interfered by outside sources and invisible interference. Flying near any tall buildings, steel structures, mountains, rocks or even trees may affect the remote signal. Losing connection doesn’t indicate any product issue. Moreover, normally the aircraft would do what it was designed to do after losing connection, while in your case, what happened afterwards was not recorded, so it was unable to verify whether the aircraft returned home or not.
We understand that there is no pilot’s fault in this flight, but no product issue could be discovered, either. Due to the interruption of the record, the cause for this incident was not recorded, but it was verified from the record that there was no malfunction found before the record was cut off. The aircraft was under your control and responded well, it worked normally before flight record ended. The aircraft showed no signs of a manufacturing defect or malfunction during the whole flight. For your case, it’s unable to locate the main reason according to the flight records you provided, we cannot explain the detail of the incident or rule out any possible speculation. As such, we provide the 30% discount for this case.
Please let us explain how data analysis works. The data analysis mainly focuses on the data from two sources, one is the data inside the aircraft itself, the other is the data generated by the DJI GO APP. Since the aircraft was lost, this data analysis had to be based on the data of DJI GO APP that was your flight record. You could review the incident record in your DJI GO APP. If you thought there was any “abnormality or malfunction” before the record ended, please point it out and we would perform a further analysis for you. If the aircraft can be retrieved, we can also try to do a further analysis based on the flight data inside the aircraft body, to figure out the cause of the accident and determine the responsibility.
You mentioned that there are many other cases of the product from your research, but each flight is supposed to based on its current situation and couldn’t be compared with other flights. Sorry that we don’t answer hypothetical questions, we cannot guarantee what hasn’t happened yet. For each case, we will offer the most reasonable solution to the customers according to the result of data analysis.
We do understand that it’s difficult to accept the result and solution. If we could help to get a higher discount, there is no reason why I don’t do that for you. Sorry that the 30% off offer is already the best discount we can offer based on the analysis result while obeying the warranty policy. We are unable to offer you the replacement service.
We greatly appreciate your support for DJI. Please consider if you need the offer and get back to us if there is any other question.
Thanks for your patience and understanding. Have a nice day.
To me, it sounds like DJI is saying the cause cannot be determined since the flight log shows no sign of pilot error or product failure. That’s what I saw when I reviewed the flight log too. Assuming that’s accurate, we still don’t know if the product failed or you did something wrong.
Did you make any progress on getting someone to help track it down?
The response was typical and fairly accurate. I personally am still a bit amiss as to why you did not have a visual on the aircraft at this distance and altitude. I understand you were viewing the monitor, but immediately upon signal loss you should have been able to see the aircraft and what it was doing.
From your original post:
If you notice in the data, at the time you gave the down throttle command, 1 sec prior you were giving full forward elevator and that continued until the end of the data. Again that explains the sound you heard. That is really neither here nor there at this point but the data does not match your description of events. Again, I do not understand why you could not see the aircraft. One would expect, an odd sound or signal loss would immediately move your attention to direct visual. I hope you are able to locate the aircraft. That would give a better explanation of the events. Until that time, as we have said everything is speculative.
It’s going to be tough to see at that distance, so not surprising that the OP lost visual contact.
Semi-Agreed…the distance was easy ( 200 ft roughly) …Maybe not so much for the altitude. The combination of the two maybe could make it a bit difficult.
An update. The hotel contacted me a few weeks back and advised that they had located the drone. Luckily the weather from date of loss to date of discovery has been bone dry.
I received the Drone back today and it does have front damage (Gimbal tore off and one section of the front left leg has been bent back by a few degrees). Other than this the drone has stood up well to the 200ft+ drop. I am trying to review the data from the drone itself to see if I can understand why this has occurred. Do I just download from the aircraft (DAT file) and upload again?
Thanks
Outstanding! The investigation continues!